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Tony McManus
One of the things that I thought we should do on the program - and we're about to kick it off now in a very nice way - is to find out more about some of the great Australian businesses that make the culture of business in Australia. So very, very important. We'll talk to Catherine, Chief Executive Officer, Family Business Association, FBA. Now, for those of you that are in family business, you would be aware that there are often many challenges much joy, but often many challenges with the idea of family business. I've had the pleasure of hosting many events for family business Association over the years and when you hear some of the names, many of whom we will talk to in coming months here on 3AW and 5AA and get an idea of how important FBA Family Businesses Association is to community, the recently appointed CEO is Catherine Sayer, Family Business Association CEO. Morning Catherine, thank you for your time.
Catherine Sayer
Good morning Tony.
Tony McManus
It's lovely to have you on the program. And you and I have been talking for the last few weeks about the role of FBA and how important it is. And we will talk to many of your members. But what an organisation and when you read through the names that are second, third, fourth, sometimes even fifth-generation family businesses in Australia. It's an amazing heritage.
Catherine Sayer
It certainly is. I'm starting to call our sector the silent sector, because when you look around just everywhere you turn, there's a family business, Tony and so many people don't even recognise that. And that's one of my big jobs, I think over the next year or two.
Tony McManus
I know Catherine some years ago, the wine industry had a brand associated with some of the great, very important family businesses producing wine for decades and decades. I think they call themselves the first family of wines from memory, great name first families of wines. But when you dig deeper, the businesses that are run by family members, second, third, fourth generation, right across spread right across Australia.
Catherine Sayer
Well that's right. And in fact, the funny you talk about the wine industry, I'm actually originally from South Australia and moved across to this role with Family Business Association, in the middle of last year. So the role that I came from, was in the food and beverage sector with Foods South Australia. And so many of the Food SA members are in fact family business members as well. So it's not unfamiliar territory for me, but you think about some of those big brands, as you say that are built over generations, and they're such great stories.
Tony McManus
And I'm thinking straight away in your part of the world would be a Cooper's Brewery would be one that people would be instantly familiar with.
Catherine Sayer
Absolutely, and I believe it's the largest, privately owned brewery in Australia. And you hear lots of those sorts of stories too, with family businesses and, and bringing that sort of independence and story to things. Coopers have done an incredible job as a many generations.
Tony McManus
Catherine, there are challenges in family business, which is part of what you do and Family Business Australia does to look at all the sorts of things that next gen - I think they call it next gen don't they, third, fourth fifth generation - needs to be aware of and one of them is who's going to run the show once the founders are no longer involved.
Catherine Sayer
Well, that's exactly right. It's funny you say that, a lot of people haven't heard of FBA previously. And sometimes their ears prick up when they know they need some help with succession planning. So that's certainly one of the key things that we support our members and the wider industry with. And I think one of the things that people don't recognise is they might think we had a story the other day from one of our members that thought it would be done and dusted in six months and three to five years later, it was betted down so it's never too early to start to talk and communicate what makes the family and actually do that succession planning because unplanned succession is often fraught with problems.
Tony McManus
Great TV series was called Succession. I think it was some sort of curious insight into the trials and tribulations of family business.
Catherine Sayer
It's funny you say that, I'm halfway through watching it because I thought I should, and those that have watched it that I know through work, have all said it's scarily common. Some of the things that happen. So yeah, look, succession is a really interesting issue. And what you also find often is, the young ones are champing at the bit to take over or that next generation. And it's very difficult sometimes for the founders or the previous generation to actually let go. So lots of family dynamics are involved in all of that. And communication is the key thing.
Tony McManus
Yeah, it's all about that level of communication. And that very important idea of Sons Daughters coming into the business, and working the business for a period of time. But mom, dad, founders, if you like, that are reluctant almost sometimes to let go. And that presents certain challenges for further growth.
Catherine Sayer
Oh, absolutely, it does. And I can think of countless stories where, when that generation has moved on, all of a sudden the business is almost is on turbo charge, I've seen a number of these different businesses where they've actually been very entrepreneurial, very strong with their marketing, their branding and taking the business to the next level.
Tony McManus
And it's also with some, I think, people once they realise there'd be some almost remorse about the demise of a particular business, for example, I'm just trying to think when in the top of my head would be some that the great brand that is Darrell Lea now it's it's different owners these days, but for many, many years, that was one of the most high profile family businesses in the country.
Catherine Sayer
Absolutely it was. And yes, you know, it's interesting, because not everything always goes from generation to generation, there are times where people do want to sell. Or in fact, some unfortunate things happen within the business. So it's not all beer and Skittles the whole way through, but you're right, Darrell Lea was a very big name. But there's lots of very big names that people don't even recognise are family businesses.
Tony McManus
One of the challenges, I guess, not the challenge. One of the joys, I guess, is when family businesses talk to each other. And it's really about those support programs that are provided by FBA.
Catherine Sayer
Oh, absolutely. FBA has been going for over 25 years. And we've got this Forum Group Program, which is a peer-to-peer networking group that meets 10 times a year. And it's almost like an advisory board that's outside of the business. I watch some of these forum group participants who become almost like family themselves and it is only for family businesses. So it's very interesting how they mix their business and the family dynamics within that forum group. And it really is quite a unique offering across Australia and it's a great program that really has helped so many businesses over many years.
Tony McManus
Catherine, one of my favorite businesses of all time, because I got to know them pretty well, was Ross Brown and the Brown Brothers - the great Brown Brothers wines. What's lovely about that, is that there is now second gen third gen. But they're all the daughters of Ross, which is great. So you could almost call it Brown Sisters. No doubt they will. But I think they're referring to it as Brown Family now.
Catherine Sayer
Yeah. And it is interesting in generations gone by it would be unheard of that the daughters were actually the natural successes and yet some of those barriers definitely have been broken down. And you know, that brings a diversity as well. We all know that the more diversity in a business and different viewpoints really, really helpful for the business. So it's great to see some very strong leaders and women coming through some of the family businesses.
Tony McManus
How important is that networking for various family businesses around the country?
Catherine Sayer
I'm actually amazed at how many times I've heard, in the short time that I've been in the role, that without the network, they don't think they would have survived. So they actually often attribute their success to FBA, but it's not FBA, per se, it's the community that we've built around us. And you know, it's really incredible some of the stories you hear and it's almost like people say, 'I have found my people', you know, they come to an FBA event or they come to get engaged in some way, shape or form. They haven't quite fitted in other groups and yet there's a community that we've built and one of our values is one family. And so the community we've built is attractive to family businesses because there are very common issues that they all face and they can talk about it, and they're in an environment of root trust and respect as well.
Tony McManus
Which is lovely. I think there are great opportunities for people to embrace the idea. And I've spoken to the program over many, many years, as you will know, but the idea of supporting local business/family business, because you could mount a pretty good argument that without the wonderful people in family businesses, Australia's economy would be very different.
Catherine Sayer
Look it would be and it's interesting you pick up on that point, because economically, about 70% of businesses are family businesses in Australia so that is a very, very big percentage to start with. Overlay that with the social fabric and the community. The family businesses are very community minded and there's a lot that give back into the community. So it's not only the economic benefit, it's a social benefit that family businesses bring to Australia.
Tony McManus
Yeah, you stay there Catherine a couple of callers for you the other side of this. For those of you that have been involved in a family business, large or small, by the way, small or large 133 693. Our special guest Catherine Sayer, who is the CEO Family Business Association.
A special guest on this Wednesday morning, Catherine Sayer, CEO Family Business Association. I think I've been saying the old name Family Business Australia but it has changed ever so slightly, beautifully known as FBA.
Catherine Sayer
Correct, Tony good pickup. Yes, we also now have an office in New Zealand so instead of being Australia we are now Family Business Association with that broader footprint.
Tony McManus
Let's take a couple of calls, Christian who is a regular contributor on the overnight program. Good morning to you, Christian. Say hello to Catherine Sayer.
Caller - Christian
G'day Catherine, how're you going?
Catherine Sayer
I'm well Christian, how are you?
Caller - Christian
Good, thank you. Good. I worked for the second longest owning business in Australia, Sadliers, which is actually in WA, which actually the founders of the port of Fremantle actually settled the port of Fremantle. In 1855 I think it was.
Catherine Sayer
Yeah, it's a very long time ago, Steve Samson, who is part of that family, was the chairman of the Family Business Association some years ago. In fact, I was speaking to him yesterday. And it's incredible, isn't it that that businesses has such a legacy.
Tony McManus
And they've diversified over the years, as you will know, Catherine. Australia's second oldest business as Christian points out, really the company founded 1829, coinciding with the foundation of Perth. In fact, brothers Lionel and William Samson, who started a merchant liquor and import business in Fremantle. Sadliers operates one of Western Australia's largest freight packaging and warehousing providers and services, many clients, now global household names. Catherine, I think the great idea about it is, that a lot of the names are not perhaps necessarily as familiar as, say, Haymes Paint, for example, or indeed Cooper's that still doesn't really translate necessarily, because people may not recognise it. They are great family businesses.
Catherine Sayer
Well, that's exactly right. And that's why Tony I've started to talk about the silent sector, because not only is it so broad across many, many, many different industries, but a lot of these businesses aren't necessarily consumer facing either. And yet they make such a massive contribution to the economy.
Tony McManus
The people that are employed in that sector, over not just five years, 10 years, 15 years, but often more than 100 years.
Catherine Sayer
Yeah, exactly. It's interesting to see because a lot of people that work for a family business actually stay there for a long time personally, so you know, there's a lot of dynamics that are different in a family business and really suit some people and there's an enormous amount of loyalty that sits in family businesses.
Tony McManus
One of the things that we'll do on a fortnightly basis is talk to various members, I had the pleasure - and this is a name certainly well known in Victoria but other states as well, including your beloved South Australia, via 5AA that are tuned in this morning - the great brand that is Stillwell. We will be talking to Michael in the next couple of weeks. But when you think about their sector and how important Bib Stillwell was as the founder of that business and the family that still very involved in it. And everybody would have a story of perhaps buying a car for example from Stillwell.
Catherine Sayer
Including myself. And Michael has such a great story to tell, listeners are going to really enjoy hearing from him.
Tony McManus
They certainly will, Catherine, I thank you for coming on. We could do a whole hour on it but it's a fantastic sector. I'm thrilled to actually be involved and I hope that a lot of the Australian overnight audience will have some fantastic stories to tell about their relationship over the years with FBA.
Catherine Sayer
Absolutely. Thanks so much for the opportunity, Tony.
Tony McManus
Catherine Sayer, CEO Family Business Association it is Australia Overnight, more of your calls the other side.
