Listen to the third segment from 6 March 2024, featuring Emily Hammon from Scenic World.
View the transcript here:
Tony McManus
This is a regular segment every couple of weeks and it features one of the great family members, family members from Family Business Association. Without further ado, let me explain all about Scenic World.
So, family business as you know, is in many ways the backbone, whether you're talking about family businesses been doing it for well over 100 years or whether you talk working in a family business, being part of a family business for 6-8 months. Let's hope that they succeed and do really well. I've always taken the view that without great family businesses, the economy would be even in worse shape, pretty much as it goes through various cycles over time.
The great organisation that is Family Business Association, used to be called Family Business Australia, FBA, but now it also involves a lot of family businesses coming out of New Zealand. One of the most prolific in terms of hospitality and travel, I guess, is the band known as Scenic World, but it's all part of a greater family business, Hammons Holdings, a third-generation family, bears more than 75 years of history. Highly successful track record as you can imagine, whether it be the BridgeClimb in Sydney, we'll talk about the Sydney Zoo and what they do in the Blue Mountains. Wow, what a fantastic history. Emily Hammon is part of the great family that has run that for over 75 years. It's a thrill to have you on the program. Emily, good morning.
Emily Hammon
Thank you very much for having me, Tony.
Tony McManus
Thank you for coming on the program. I know for family business members, it's not something that necessarily comes easily talking about the history of family business but for many of us, we look inside, and we look at what you've developed and how it all started. So, that's where I'm going first up, who was the original founder of the business that we now know and love as Scenic World?
Emily Hammon
Thanks for asking. So, I am incredibly fortunate to be part of an amazing family that has this incredible family business, Katoomba Scenic Railway, as it was formerly known in the Blue Mountains, which is about 100 kilometres west of Sydney in New South Wales and Katoomba Scenic Railway was established by my grandfather, a gentleman named Harry Hammon.
The site used to be a coal mine back in the late 1800s, and when the mine was closed, my grandfather purchased the lease to operate the Katoomba Scenic Railway in 1945 and it's been in the family ever since. In 1957, he added the first horizontal cable car in Australia, which is now known as the Katoomba Scenic Skyway, so that is also quite some time ago now. My grandfather worked for a very long time with my dad, Philip, and he worked with my grandfather, father and son business for a long time, and my father's legacy in the business was establishing another ride there called the Katoomba Scenic Cableway, and he also developed the walkway, which is a boardwalk down in the rainforest.
Tony McManus
Which we’ll come back to in just a moment. I want to talk about grandfather, because I mean, just there wasn’t a media post-war, so there was a lot of things going on. What do you know now as the granddaughter when you reflect on the vision that grandfather had?
Emily Hammon
I think that he really thought that he'd be lucky if he made six bob a week, I think was what my father would say about it, but he had an aspiration to provide an opportunity for the tourists. I think he would be very proud and really astounded now at the business that it has become, from his initial foresight back then.
Tony McManus
And that in itself says something in him doesn’t it? Because it wasn't as if at that time, immediately, very shortly after World War 2, it wasn't like, we're not doing a lot of entertaining. There's a lot of work to be done before we start to welcome visitors from around the world.
Emily Hammon
Yes, so the tourists were actually already going to the Blue Mountains and they were looking for opportunities, but there wasn't really that many, to be honest, and at the time, the Katoomba Scenic Railway was only operating on the weekends but my grandfather really saw an opportunity for it to be opened more.
Tony McManus
Yeah, to really upscale the activity around it.
Emily Hammon
Yes.
Tony McManus
And that in itself was visionary.
Emily Hammon
Yes, absolutely. He really was very entrepreneurial for his time. I think that spirit has definitely stayed within the family.
Tony McManus
And what do we know about relationships that he, and then later, your father were able to develop through that area? Because unless you've got, I imagine, unless you've got great support from community to understand how important, and I don't like to call them tourists, I'd like to call them visitors, how important it is to have visitors arrive and enjoy what you're offering. It takes a fair bit of work.
Emily Hammon
Yes, absolutely, and I think being in the Blue Mountains, it's very much a community area, and the local businesses, even now, very much support each other. And my grandfather and my father are very active members of Rotary and there's so many local businesses that depend upon the visitors or tourists that come that really sustain the area because we receive approximately a million visitors a year at Scenic World, and you have to imagine the amount of economy that they're bringing into the local businesses, the small cafes, the supermarkets, the little gift shops. Everybody really thrives and is very much supported by those visitors to the region.
Tony McManus
It was really interesting, just a couple of weeks ago, and when Taylor was, certainly in Melbourne, and as you would know, in Sydney as well, and the activity that generated. Was a phenomenal tour and wonderful artist we get that but the fact that it also supported all those very small, quite often, whether it be a cafe, whether it be a larger hotel, but all those ancillary businesses, it becomes really important, and I guess, in a sense, that's what your grandfather and father would have been looking at, albeit they may not even necessarily have been cognisant of it at that time.
Emily Hammon
Yeah, absolutely. I mean the effects of people like Taylor Swift or any celebrities that come through, were just, they are enormous, absolutely.
Tony McManus
The enthusiasm for the business that still remains, obviously, for the family is very important. You're part of that. Do you take a role or is there a great team now that's been set up to manage the ongoing projects?
Emily Hammon
So, I personally work independently of the business, and two of my siblings are involved in the business on a daily basis, which is fantastic, and we've got, thanks to the Family Business Association, actually we've got a, what we refer to as a governance structure set up, where we're able to have information shared between the family members that work in the business and family members that don't work in the business, to be able to really facilitate an environment of sharing and information that's able to keep us all involved.
Tony McManus
Which is very important and that probably looks at elements around or the challenges of succession too.
Emily Hammon
Yes, absolutely. We've got a booming 4th generation. We've got 13 in our next gen between the ages of 4 and 17, so quite a close cousin consortium, is what you'd refer to them as, and you know, there's great opportunity.
Tony McManus
I love it, a cousin consortium. If that works well, it's fantastic.
Emily Hammon
Yes. So, really, it takes a lot of work, I think is the important part to realise that we really perceive ourselves as being custodians of the business and generally, that would mean that we hope to pass on a business that's in a better state than when we got it, to be able to pass it on to the 14, 13 members of the next generation and it's an element of our family that is something that has to very much be planned for. It's not just going to happen by itself.
Tony McManus
No, it doesn't happen, and it's got to be carefully managed. I'd love to take some calls while you're here with us. Those that have visited the Blue Mountains, whether those people have done the BridgeClimb, we'll get to the zoo in just a moment. The BridgeClimb itself, 5 million guests so far. So, just tell us how that came about, the BridgeClimb, part of the group’s holdings.
Emily Hammon
So, Sydney Harbour BridgeClimb is part, essentially, of the licence to operate tourism activities on Sydney Harbour Bridge and we are the 100% licensee of that through the government department here in New South Wales and it's because it is run by the government. It went to tender and we were one of the groups that were in that process and we were successful in that tendering process. So, it's very much a legacy I think for us as a family that we've been able to achieve that and to win the tender against other people, really big businesses that we were up against. It was a huge success and I think it's very much testament to family businesses and what they can bring to a business like that. You mentioned earlier about the importance of family businesses in the Australian economy and they represent approximately 70% of the Australian economy so it's a huge amount that they contribute and that we contribute so, it was very timely I think that the BridgeClimb came about when we were at an opportune moment.
Tony McManus
Right place, right time.
Emily Hammon
Yeah, it's definitely an element of that and it's a 20-year lease, so who knows where we'll be in another 14, 15 years and by that stage, maybe there'll be some next gen. members involved. Who knows?
Tony McManus
You stay there. I'd love to hear from people that have actually done the BridgeClimb. You may have been to the Blue Mountains. Special guest Emily Hammon, all part of Family Business Association. We'll talk about the Sydney Zoo.
Emily Hammon is a part of the family business that is known as, for one product really, is Scenic World and lots of others. Em, tell us about the zoo and how that came around as part of looking after the zoo. It sounds a little unusual. I guess it's a great opportunity.
Emily Hammon
Yes, we are only cornerstone investors in Sydney Zoo, which is based sort of roughly between Sydney Harbour BridgeClimb and Scenic World in the Blue Mountains. It's sort of a midway point for us in terms of a tourist’s journey for example, so, it's an opportunity that came about, and we're involved in just a small level, the same also with URBNSURF in Melbourne, actually, we had cornerstone investors down there too.
Tony McManus
I'm glad you mentioned Melbourne, so just for people that are listening through 3AW and 5AA, the surf is where?
Emily Hammon
URBNSURF, it's in Melbourne. It's like an inland surfing facility.
Tony McManus
Wow, I wish we knew more. We should have got somebody to do that. Sounds amazing.
Emily Hammon
Yes, it's very popular.
Tony McManus
I'm getting a message that Tom Elliott from our morning program actually goes there on a regular basis for surfing.
Emily Hammon
Yeah, it's supposed to be fantastic. I can't surf so. Being from the Blue Mountains.
Tony McManus
No. Well, anytime you're there, you can get a complimentary pass. We'll make sure you get a complimentary ticket. Em, the idea of great businesses like yours and whether it be somebody like Haymes Paint that have been doing it for a long time and the 2nd and 3rd Gen. coming into the business. That's an exciting time, which presumably your grandfather, and I guess your dad, probably now oversees some of that and how important staff are to the ongoing concern that makes it so viable for generations, next Gen.
Emily Hammon
Yes, absolutely, I mean the staff are a crucial part of our business and you know the grandchildren are very much, they love Scenic World, they love the bridge. They really are very excited about it. They all have different experiences and different exposure to the business as well, and we actually wrote a storybook for our next generation that tells the story of our family business and that my father was able to share with them, which was really beautiful.
Tony McManus
What a fabulous idea. I wish I had a copy of that in front of me. Why didn't Catherine organise that? That will be going back to the meeting. It's fantastic.
Emily Hammon
Yes, stories for generations, so, we help other family businesses tell their stories as well, in a format that's really aimed at their children, so that legacy creation can start and start early.
Tony McManus
Does the business see itself as a part of the hospitality sector as well as the tourism sector?
Emily Hammon
I think yes, because there's an element of hospitality, where you come, you enjoy a coffee or a beer. Scenic World Blue Mountain has got a beautiful balcony where we actually collaborated with the local brewery to create a beer that really represents the Blue Mountains and you can sit out on the deck in the daylight savings hours and enjoy the beautiful view of The Three Sisters and have a Scenic World beer. It's an amazing place. The hospitality and tourism, in my view, go very much hand in hand.
Tony McManus
I agree, and on a personal note, what about COVID? How difficult was that for yours and certainly lots of other businesses right across Australia. How was that managed?
Emily Hammon
Yeah, COVID was a hugely difficult time for us. That was post us being closed for the first time in the Blue Mountains because of bushfires. So, we had bushfires early 2019, new year 2020 and then we had COVID. So, it was the first time in our 75-year history essentially, that we have been closed. We're open 365 days a year and it was a huge shock for us. However, we have survived, if not, thrived through that period and I think we are very much ready for anything that might come at us now.
Tony McManus
Which is important too. I know in talking to other family businesses over the years and whether it be Betts Shoes in Perth or whether it be Haymes or whether it be Coopers Brewery in South Australia, it's about the team members that they have around them and those that stay with that business, for sometimes decades, which is important and adds to that heritage in my view.
Emily Hammon
Yes, definitely, and I think we, as you mentioned previously, are active members of the Family Business Association and as a result of that, we work with a lot of trusted and accredited advisors through FBA and really that they have helped us and the governance structures that we have in place with external non-executive board members etc. has been really pivotal to us being able to survive such a time as COVID.
Tony McManus
Does it sometimes get a bit testy at family business meetings?
Emily Hammon
We worked very hard on making sure that our family business meetings are a safe place for everybody to be.
Tony McManus
How many times did you watch the TV series? What could we learn from this?
Emily Hammon
Yes, I think Succession is not a great example of how family business should be run. Let's put it that way.
Tony McManus
No, it's not. I'm glad you said that. It's not a great example.
Emily Hammon
They are not members of Family Business Association. I could tell you that right now.
Tony McManus
No, they're not, and they had lots of issues. Em, are you allowed to share with this audience on 3AW and 5AA some projects that maybe are in the pipeline, secret squirrel stuff?
Emily Hammon
No, not really, I think at the moment we're just post-COVID and getting ourselves back to the position that we were. Tourists, still, are not back to the numbers that we had coming earlier.
Tony McManus
You mean international visitors?
Emily Hammon
Yes, coming back into Australia, that we were pre-COVID. So, we really won’t be able to get those tourists and those visitors back, and for us really, it's very much about working on and with our future generation within the family and getting them along to Family Business Australia events and having a wonderful, positive experience around family businesses.
Tony McManus
Em, it's a delight to talk to you this morning. Thank you very much for staying up late for us and wish you and the family members ongoing success, particularly in your part of the world in NSW, but I have no doubt we'll hopefully get some, when you go, there'll be people say, yeah, been there. It's fantastic to what you do there in NSW. Wish you all continued success.
Emily Hammon
Thank you very much. Yes, please do come and visit. It's a beautiful part of the world.
Tony McManus
Thank you. Well done. Emily Hammon, part of the family business that is Scenic World, in particular in New South Wales.
