Family businesses are built differently.
As our CEO Catherine Sayer told Tony McManus on Australia Overnight, family businesses “don’t think in quarters, they think in generations.”
That long-term view shapes how family businesses plan, lead, employ, invest and make decisions. It is also why we need better insight into what they are experiencing right now.
Catherine joined the program, broadcast on 6PR, 3AW and 5AA, to speak about the Family Business Barometer Survey, supported by Pronto Software. The survey is open to all family businesses and will help FBA better understand the sector’s successes, challenges, stressors and long-term goals.
Most importantly, it will give us stronger evidence to take to government and policymakers, so they can better understand “how family businesses tick.”
The conversation also touched on the importance of supporting Australian family businesses, the pressures facing local manufacturers, the value of strong governance and succession planning, and the role of FBA’s education programs, Accredited Advisor network and the upcoming Family Business Conference: Asia Pacific in Hobart.
If you are part of a family business, this is a chance to have your say. The survey takes around 10 minutes and is open until 5 June.
Full Transcript
Tony McManus: This is Australia Overnight with Tony McManus. Catherine Sayer. It's lovely to see you. Catherine is the CEO, Family Business Association, the FBA if you like, which is a membership-based organisation representing a whole host, zillions of them, family businesses, right across Australia. We should point out, around about 70% of all businesses in Australia have links to family-owned businesses and we applaud each and every one of them during some particularly tough times that they've had in the past and probably to some degree, as we speak. Catherine, lovely to see you again.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Good morning Tony, how are you?
Tony McManus: Thank you for asking. I'm really, really well. Lots of things we'll talk about this next 15 or 20 minutes. But FBA, just for those that don't know, has been around for a long time, does an amazing job. Some of those family businesses go back more than now 120 years.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Oh absolutely. In fact, I think there's a couple of businesses that are sort of looking at 6th and 7th generation. Not many. But those that make it are pretty impressive.
Tony McManus: There was a great piece in one of the magazines yesterday on Haymes Paint, Ballarat business. Extraordinary storyline. Young Matty was featured, bless his heart and soul, who looks the spitting image of his father, who was so important in setting that great business up.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Absolutely. In fact, I've seen Matt recently at a couple of functions, and he is such a delightful man and probably epitomises the family business ethos. He's kind, he's generous, he's smart and just a delight to be around. And that business is so impressive. I've just renovated my house and Haymes Paint was on my walls.
Tony McManus: I'll bet you did and they would have done an outstanding job. So, what's the health, given the current climate, what's the feedback that you've been getting? The pressures that maybe some businesses are under has been documented recently. Is that the feedback that you've had?
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Look, it's really mixed, Tony. I mean, family businesses are small, medium and large across all sectors. So, some sectors are doing better than others. I think what we're seeing at the moment is challenges in Australian manufacturing. And I think what we need to remember is we really value those that manufacture in Australia, particularly being family-owned, and we love family businesses. So, what we need to think about as a consumer is what do we want the future to look like in Australia? And my personal view and lots of other views are we want to support Australia and we want to support Australian family businesses.
Tony McManus: We've been talking about that for a long time, the idea of Australian business or Australian manufacturing business in particular. But what we do know is that if you've got to buy a pair of socks, it's very hard to get some socks that are now made in Australia, metaphorically.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Look, that's absolutely right, and that's what we're facing. Socks is one example, but we talk about a whole lot of other clothing, bedding, food, you know, everything you think about that's manufactured in Australia. We want to see that continue.
Tony McManus: Yeah, and bedding is being made here under a very well-known brand, and different brands upon those brands, for 120+ years, 126 years.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: That's right, A.H. Beard is going through a pretty tough time at the moment. So again, we're saying look out for the A.H. Beard beds. They're amazing quality, Australian made, and we want to really support them and see them go for another 125.
Tony McManus: Catherine, the Family Business Barometer Survey. What can you tell us?
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: So, this is the second time we've done it, and it's supported by Pronto Software, one of our partners. And the survey basically will give us some really good insights as to the successes, the growth challenges, long-term goals of family businesses. And I've been in this role nearly three years, and when I first started, it was really difficult to get any data specifically on family businesses. So, we did this survey a couple of years ago. It's open at the moment for all family businesses, you don't need to be members of FBA, and it's really, really helpful for me to have that data to then advocate to government, to policy makers, to talk to people like you about what's going on in the family business sector. So, it's on our website, familybusinessassociation.org and to any family business, I really strongly encourage you to have your say so we can represent your views.
Tony McManus: What's the sort of things, the information you're looking for?
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Basically, we're looking at that basic demographic, what sectors they're in, but also honing into that family area, about, what are some of your family business challenges? What are some of your stressors? What are your long-term goals? Because family businesses don't think in quarters, they think in generations. And we need to make sure we've got really good information that we can communicate to policymakers for them to really understand how family businesses tick.
Tony McManus: One of the great leaders of this radio station, and certainly 6PR in Perth for a long time, was Shane Healy. Shane would often talk to businesses of all kinds, including family businesses, about the idea of ‘working in your business’, ‘working for your business’. And a very subtle but important distinction.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: It so is. And in fact, it's a really interesting point. So next week we've got our Family Business Conference: Asia Pacific in Hobart. And we've got a lot of family business leaders coming to that. Now, hats off to them for working on their business and coming away from their business for the week so they're not in it. So, it's really important to have those opportunities to connect, to communicate, to learn. And so, we've got that next week in Hobart, which will be great.
Tony McManus: Which will be a great thing. I think, was it last year? Time flies, this year's gone really quickly, hasn't it?
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: It sure has.
Tony McManus: It's frightening. We heard the great Glen Cooper speak from Cooper's Brewery in South Australia. There wouldn't be anybody listening in Victoria that at some point hasn't, around Australia, that hasn't tasted a Cooper's beer. Point of that story is, I mean, that is a family business, been there for a long time, but he tells the beautiful, I shouldn't say beautiful, people get cross when I say beautiful, he tells the amazing story of the challenges that even Coopers as a family business encountered because some of the other overseas businesses thought, well, here's something we can grab. And it happens too often.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Yep, they survived a hostile takeover proposition and that story is absolutely incredible and that family is multi-generational and I think they're... I think it's fifth generation in the business now and they're a very, very proud family business.
Tony McManus: Yeah. When we come back, we might talk more about some of those great businesses with which people might be familiar. If you love a family business or you know one, you've got a story, you might be one. We'd love to hear from you. 133 693. Catherine Sayer is the CEO of Family Business Association. It is Australia Overnight.
Tony McManus: If you've just joined the program, nice to have your company, Tony McManus. Catherine Sayer is the CEO, Family Business Association. A fanatical football supporter.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Fanatical might be a bit of a stretch, but I do watch a lot of football, Tony.
Tony McManus: Did you tip last night Geelong or Brisbane?
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Annoyingly, I tipped Brisbane and I did give it a couple of thoughts and then decided I better go with the favourite and that was the wrong decision.
Tony McManus: There's one thing, hosting a program like this around Australia, the passion for a football club, and I think there were some similarities with the want of people to be passionate about the people with whom they deal outside of their family environment.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Yeah.
Tony McManus: And I think there's sort of a link there, isn't there? We love our footy sides, we love our teams, we love the locality. For example, before you got in here, we were talking about some of the great brands, for example, of supermarkets that people around Australia identified with over many, many decades. Most of those brands are gone, it comes down to two. Two of which are in a fair bit of strife at the moment as a result, which you would have been following as well. But those relationships are really important, which is what you're about.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Absolutely, and I think family businesses... many, many people that work in them often feel like family themselves. So, there's that value system in a family business which is incredibly strong. And it's really so gorgeous when you hear people working in the business that are not family saying, we are treated like family, we feel like family. And so that's a really big social fabric piece of our community and society. So, it's probably one of the reasons I'm really passionate about family businesses. And you talk about some of the supermarket situation, if I go to a supermarket, I want to be able to choose those brands and family businesses invest a lot of money in brand development. So those brands that you identify with, that you love, you want to be able to buy them. So, you know, again, go to the supermarket, support local brands, support family businesses, because the majority of them are family businesses. And you get a great product.
Tony McManus: Tell us about the challenges. I know we've discussed this, but some time ago now, when a family business grows and grows and grows. I mean, we just had a wonderful young woman leaping from our newsroom and she said, Oh, by the way, I'm a member of the Cooper family.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Incredible, wasn't it?
Tony McManus: Wow. And you've leapt up and given her a hug. So how important is the idea of making sure that those family businesses stay together in that sense?
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: So, it's not that complex when you're a founder. Once you get to that next generation and then the generation after, it can be tricky. It gets incredibly complex. So, there's a couple of really key things.
Tony McManus: And they can fail because of that.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Absolutely. And some key things around that are around communication. There's a lot of people that don't in businesses, the family businesses that don't want to talk about money, don't want to talk about succession, don't want to face some inevitable outcomes. And that's the wrong thing to do. You know, communication. Planning, setting up advisory boards, setting up family councils, your family charter, the ‘what happens if’ kind of scenario, and families do get big, so you've got to plan for getting bigger and how that corporate structure works within the family business.
Tony McManus: One of those challenges too, where... it can be easily dismantled if it's not managed effectively, very quickly.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Absolutely. So, you know, there's a lot. Governance for family businesses is really important. And we've got a whole lot of education around succession and governance and family dynamics, those sorts of things that really help family businesses navigate that. And of course, we've got an advisor network that are actually accredited family business advisors who really know their stuff that can help family businesses as well.
Tony McManus: The, I don't know whether you've got the list in front of you, but some of the great brands and businesses, there's one in particular that's been, they make, it's in the supermarket and it'll come back to me in just a moment, it's just disappeared at a minute again, as it does at nearly 5:30 in the morning. But they do amazing things and their founder was quoted recently, but I'll come back to that. The idea of those founders where second and third go, we've got to behave like this in our business because that's the way dad always did it or grandpa always did it. There are some amazing stories about how that's been managed. Mostly well or not so well, that's right.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Well that’s right, I mean, that's a legacy, that's a culture and a values piece as well. The tone is set at the top, and the founder has invested blood, sweat and tears.
Tony McManus: Starting with nothing.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Starting with nothing. More often than not. So that's a type of psyche. And then you've got the next generation that has a different skill set and can add so much value as long as the founder embraces that as well. So, there's very much a two-way street in all of this.
Tony McManus: And that's got to be played out quite often. There's some wonderful stories around that. Wish you well with the conference. If people would like to know more about this survey.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Jump on our website and please complete the survey if you're a family business.
Tony McManus: Long time to do the survey?
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: It goes until the 4th of June. So you've got a couple of weeks still.
Tony McManus: Okay, so you're not going to be sitting in front of your computer for hours, presumably?
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: 10 minutes.
Tony McManus: 10 minutes, okay. Sometimes you go to those surveys and you think, I'll help with them. Then 45 minutes.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: No, no, it's actually a pretty... There's some good questions in there, but 10 minutes or so.
Tony McManus: Tomorrow, big game for me. Daughters are here. Melbourne v. Hawthorn. If you were there, you won't be. You'll be in Hobart. Who's going to win?
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: I think Hawthorn will win.
Tony McManus: Off you go then. Nice to see you. Thank you.
Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO: Thanks, Tony.
Tony McManus: Catherine Sayer, Family Business Association CEO.
Melbourne right now, just over 11 degrees. That top of 22 beautiful degrees today. Lots of sunshine around. Perth just nudging 10 degrees, top of 20 some showers. And Adelaide, 19 and you're going for 23 degrees. It's all part of Australia Overnight.
