Listen to the fourth segment from 20 March 2024, featuring Ray Borda from Macro Group Australia.
View the transcript here:
Tony McManus
This is part of our ongoing analysis, if you like, or understanding the role of great businesses like the one we're about to talk about, it's all part of Family Business Association.
As we pay tribute to the founders of some amazing businesses all around Australia, this one in particular, coincidentally is based in South Australia. The family-owned and operated business has a long history of innovation and excellence. The Macro Group Australia has grown from a collection of companies that includes various premium kangaroo meat brands for retail, food service, export, luxury leather goods. The state-of-art Adelaide-based food company approach ensures nothing is wasted and that's the important part. We'll talk about that in just a moment. Company director has been doing this for well over 20 years as Ray Borda, pioneer of the global kangaroo meat industry and I'm happy to say he's online.
Good morning, Ray.
Ray Borda
Good morning, Tony.
Tony McManus
It's lovely to talk to you and I read with interest, a lot of details about the efforts.
Just tell us, Ray, if you will, how it all started and how the family came together with this at a time where presumably, eating our great beloved kangaroo meat was not that popular.
Ray Borda
Well, I wish it was 20 years ago, but it was 38 years ago, would you believe?
I was a mechanical engineer. Just graduated, started a job, had a hobby of breeding dogs, and I couldn't find any meat to feed the dogs except for the butchers so, I decided there was a little bit of a void there. So, I started Australia's first pet food shop where we sold pet meats, dry food, canned food, anything that was food for dogs and cats and that's how it all started. It was at that time, remember selling all different types of meat, I discovered kangaroo and it took off.
Then some years later, in the early 80s, there had been some legislation changes where they said fresh pet meat had to be dyed blue because of meat substitution bracket that happened in the 80s with America, and then shortly after that they had a change of sales tax in the budget, which added another 17.5% to the price of fresh pet meat. So, overnight at a booming company, I was trying to sell blue pet food with tax on it so, I just had to find some way to get around it and that's how it all started - the human consumption side. I found a loophole and it was in South Australia that had never outlawed kangaroo meat, not for human consumption, and that's how it started. I stopped selling pet food and started doing human consumption but of course, it was a loophole, so it had to be changed, otherwise it was never going to last.
So, I approached an old politician, a Liberal politician called Heini Becker, for help, and he said, Ray, you go out and write the legislation and I'll prevent it but I had no idea.
Tony McManus
Really? You write the notes and I'll put it through. Get it through for you. Wow.
Ray Borda
Yeah, and till today, 98% of it still exists.
Tony McManus
Isn't that fantastic? Ray, tell us about this. Just remind people about what you refer to as the blue meat.
Ray Borda
It was a vegetable dye so it wouldn't get back into the food chain, a human food chain. It had to be dyed blue. So, that's what I was stuck with until I changed everything to human consumption and gave away the pet food.
Tony McManus
And were the challenges, presumably there were at that time, Ray, because it was not overwhelmingly embraced is my recollection.
Ray Borda
No, it was very new then. It's actually quite new now in some circles, but it was tough. But we found a few innovative chefs and they were willing to shock anybody, and they took it on board and helped promote and the supermarkets then took on a mince that was in a frozen tub that was for human consumption but it was obviously going for pets and that's how it all started and it grew from there.
Tony McManus
Those chefs presumably played an enormous role then, and to some degree now, presumably as well.
Ray Borda
They're ambassadors, they're the people that promote. If you go to a restaurant, you're always looking to try something a little bit different, and if you try kangaroo for the first time, if you like it or it sort of surprises you, which is the main comment we get, then you may be willing to sort of consume it at home. And of course, you're not going to do it unless there's a reason, and what happens with kangaroo, comes along with a lot of health benefits and that has also help promote.
Tony McManus
We'll talk about that export market in just a moment and how it's perceived overseas, but was there levels of resistance certainly in South Australia and in other parts of Australia?
Ray Borda
It only started in South Australia, and it was about 10 years later, we were able to sell it interstate but there was resistance. How do you say to somebody that pet food you were feeding your pet, now you can eat? To upgrade anything is difficult, and it really set the tone for us, is that nothing was ever going to be easy. That really set us in good stead for times ahead because I don't think it's ever been easy. But certainly, as the time goes on, it’s getting a lot more awareness but it has been a tough battle.
Tony McManus
Tell us about the role of family generally, the family in any family business becomes very important. Was that on your radar at that time?
Ray Borda
My family have always been in business and they were immigrants from Malta. My grandfather had a picture theatre, a soft drink company, and he was very entrepreneurial in his own right. But when my father left Malta for Australia, like he was the eldest son and you didn't do that, he came to Australia and had to start all over again.
I always say that like a lot of immigrants, they come with nothing and I always say that helped me a lot because my parents actually, during my growing days, gave me what I call the gift of poverty and that just made me grateful for everything I've got, and you never forget what you get. It also made me a fighter right from the beginning so, it was like, almost without me knowing it at the time, it was in my blood. And then when I got to the stage where my kids were old enough, they wanted to be a part of the business. I made sure they had a career elsewhere but now three of them work with me and my wife as well, and it's been great.
Tony McManus
Is father still with us?
Ray Borda
No, he passed away years ago but he was always very proud of what all his kids achieved because even other members of my family were in business as well. I remember in particular, when my sister went into hotels, and she wanted me to become part of that family business and I wisely or unwisely, chose not to. I'm not sure who's made more money, her or me, but I know I've had more headaches than she has, but it's been great. I've always wanted to peddle my own canoe, I suppose, and always wanted to create something new rather than to follow everybody else. I've got a little saying on my computer I've written down that I always remind myself, and that is resist the usual, and that's been my motto ever since.
Tony McManus
Resist the usual. We should all have that T-shirt of it, I think, Ray.
Ray Borda
Yeah.
Tony McManus
It's great. You stay there. We'll come back with more in just a moment, Ray Borda, Founder, Managing Director, Macro Group Australia, Family Business Association.
Special guest this morning, Ray Borda, Founder, Managing Director of the Macro Group Australia, who do quite extraordinary things as a business, all around the export and locally produced, of course, obviously, kangaroo meat, based in SA. Question for the listeners, might be interesting, Ray. Here in Victoria and around SA, those that are familiar with the product or tasted kangaroo meat, love to hear from you.
Just a quick one with Vernon Morwell, good morning, Vern.
Caller - Vernon Morwell
Good morning.
Tony McManus
Say hello to Ray.
Caller - Vernon Morwell
How are you, Ray?
Ray Borda
Good, thank you.
Caller - Vernon Morwell
You've taken on a challenge and it's paid off. I think we do have an influx of kangaroos but I remember the Aboriginals used to cook the kangaroo tail, I was just wondering, in your mind, what is the best part of the kangaroo that you can cook?
Tony McManus
That's a great question. Ray.
Ray Borda
You know what the Aboriginals got it right? It is the tail. But that's cooked underground and it's cooked skin on. And when the skin burns off or the hair burns off, that's when it's ready. But besides that, probably what we call the fillet, which is like a porterhouse fillet.
Tony McManus
So, are there similarities when, in terms of the farmers, if you like, Ray, and how they look at or grow a particular style of, obviously beef, same with kangaroo?
Ray Borda
100%. I always say we don't really sell kangaroo. We sell paroo, malleeroo, mulgaroo, k-roo, and they're all different breeds. It's like the wagyu or the black Angus of the game meat industry. Paroo is the red kangaroo, and that's probably the most mild and the most suited to Western palates, and then, you have the malleeroo, it’s a little bit more robust, and the Europeans like that, and they all have their own flavour profiles.
I've been known to drink some wine in my day, and I've always been in love with the romance of what they have on the label as far as flavours and notes and everything else. I really thought that we need to describe the flavours of what you're going to be eating because a lot of people would say to me, ‘What's it taste like?’ and when you talk, what do you say? It tastes like kangaroo or you say it tastes like chicken so, we are now able to describe the flavours of kangaroo and the areas that come out of the provenance, and also, what that kangaroo eats, and the whole story. We give people and people love it.
Tony McManus
Packaging is important, obviously.
Ray Borda
It is, an awareness and our website describes a lot of other things, including recipes and just about everything you need, the history, the animal welfare side of it, which is really important and the health benefits.
Tony McManus
We'll get back to that in just a moment. What about those that choose not to eat meat, that are vegetarian? Were there barriers there at any point?
Ray Borda
In actual fact, would you believe, 60% of people that were vegetarians, and need to come back to a protein, 60% of them choose kangaroo because it's non-farmed and they believe that it's a free-living animal and that's what they like. Matter of fact, there's a couple of groups, would you believe that I only found out about five years ago. One is called a kangatarian, vegetarian eats kangaroo and there is another group called Roo Tuesday. They created those groups themselves, so there is a strong following from people that were vegetarians that want to return to protein.
Tony McManus
What about suppliers? How is it supplied to you before it gets to, presumably, factory?
Ray Borda
We have hunters that are accredited. They have to be educated, they have to do courses, and once they pass marksmanship, police checks, health authorities, then Department of Environment, because let's remember, kangaroo is still a protected species. So, they have to jump through a lot of hoops, and so, they get set up in certain areas in the Outback. We provide mobile cool rooms and a lot of people think kangaroos are farmed, but they're not. They're actually taken in the wild by way of shooting, which is the most humane way to take an animal, and early at night when they're at rest. So they'll shoot the animal, and then they'll bleed it, eviscerate and put it into our cool rooms and we've got semi-trailers that are circling all the time. Everything's refrigerated. They will pick them up, comes to our factory and it goes through 17 different inspections. We have government vets and government meat inspectors. It's quite exhausting really.
Tony McManus
As you say that, I'm exhausted listening to the processes but I guess that's the beauty of family business. You can give that attention at the front end and continue to expand and develop each year, I would have imagined.
Ray Borda
Everybody knows us by kangaroo, but nowadays, we do wild venison, rabbit, hare, wild boar, goat, small goods. We stick to our core, which is game meat, and would you believe, our company Macro Group is the biggest wild game processor in the world, here in little old Adelaide.
Tony McManus
In the world. Siv is in Sydney. Siv, good morning to you. Ray's listening to you.
Caller - Siv
Good morning, Tony. Good morning, Ray.
Just a question about the fake meat that calls itself meat and the milk that calls itself milk, like soy and dairy-free and all that. How's the campaign going to actually fix some of that so that we know that's not actually real meat or real milk?
Ray Borda
We actually looked at plant-based ourselves because I wanted to be on trend and just so we knew what we were talking about, and in my opinion and many other opinions, the fake meat, fake milk has hit a lot of hurdles because of cost and because of the amount of ingredients they have to use to mimic the colour, the taste, the texture. I mean ingredients are as long as your arms and the cost. So, it's actually, in my opinion and many others, it hasn't worked according to plan and a lot of places around the world have backed off and believe me, you could tell the difference. I’ve tasted some imitation meat and it's not the same. To get the texture and everything, can you imagine what's involved?
Tony McManus
I can't really, is the honest answer, Ray.
Ray Borda, Founder, Managing Director, Macro Group in Australia, based in South Australia. Right. Let me ask you about the other side of the business, if you like, and presumably, a very important part of that business is the leather goods area as an extension.
Ray Borda
Yeah, we believe in full sustainability and there's nothing that leaves our premises that hasn't been processed. So, the leather of course, is off the animal and we not only get it tanned, but we also make leather goods out of it as well. I got to say, when I say Adelaide, we've got operations in Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia, so I didn't want to give you the impression that the kangaroos either come out of South Australia, they come out of Australia. So, it's really interesting because we've made Ugg boots out of it, we've made liver aprons, which are amazing. They weigh 300g, you can iron them, they're fireproof, heatproof, waterproof, stainproof, and they're amazing. We supply a lot of artisans, wine bars, a lot of places, and then, we make bags, and recently, we've started doing luggage because kangaroo leather is only about 1mm thick, very light, but eight times the tensile strength of kettle hose.
Tony McManus
And produced in Australia.
Ray Borda
Yeah, we do everything here. It's costly, it's not easy, but it's what we do. The animal is, the kangaroo in particular, all the game meat that we deal with, an amazing animal that has to be respected, but there's just far too many of them.
Tony McManus
Yeah, and have you had support around that over the years, over the journey?
Ray Borda
Farmers certainly want relief from the damage that is caused and the amount of water they consume and feed because they're in competition to their livestock. We do receive support from them. We receive a lot of support from the government. We just can't go out and just shoot kangaroos. There’s quotas that are set by the government and we operate under their quota system. So, we have scientists, in particular independent scientists, who have really got behind what we do for a lot of reasons, with health, with the environment, we're doing carbon footprint on the animals right now, and it's like 1 cow will produce 7.6 tonne of methane gas. A kangaroo is 0.006.
Tony McManus
Yeah, it was a big distinction. Would second and third Gen, Ray, in the family business, would they be more active in that than maybe you would have been 35, 38 years ago in those considerations?
Ray Borda
Yeah, they are. They add another dimension to what I do. Sometimes I can be a little bit stuck in what I'm doing and they'll come along with something that's completely different or for instance, online, we've got four online companies and it was them that drove it. Not me, and I have to sit back and listen and take orders. So, it's been good. It's like any football team. You need your experienced players, and you need your youth coming through. It's what makes our company work so, family businesses, it's got the passion behind it and it’s just really heartening when I'm with my family and I hear them say things that I said 20 years ago and it's like, well, they have been listening. It's great.
Tony McManus
Ray Borda, Founder, Managing Director, Macro Group Australia. More with Ray, the other side of this and your calls, particularly if you have tasted any of the great product, kangaroo product. Love your feedback.
If you have just joined us, our very special guest Ray Borda, Founder, Managing Director, Macro Group Australia, part of Family Business Association.
We talked about the Macro Group. What's the brand? Are you marketing it as macro?
Ray Borda
No, in the supermarket, it's called K-Roo. That's another innovation by the younger people of my family and paroo is more for the hospitality group and the others are mostly brands for export. So, we brand everything, even our venison is branded, our wild boar is branded, everything is branded.
Tony McManus
Annie is in East Gippsland. Good morning, Annie.
Caller - Annie
Good morning, Tony and Ray. Ray, I'd just like to say congratulations on setting up such a wonderful industry. You've just done a mighty job. Ray, I'm asking you a question. When you're tanning the hides, do you have a particular area of which you can sell them to people that make stuff.
Ray Borda
Yeah, we do. We have an online company called Karmine, and that does all sorts of leather for people that want to do things themselves. There's other companies that do it as well but I think we're sort of fairly easily accessible, and it makes great lacing and whips and all sorts of different things.
Tony McManus
Is there room over the years to work with other great companies like R.M., which is now part of the Forest Group of course, as you know, and things like Akubra because there's similarities in there or do they, by definition, become competitors?
Ray Borda
No, R.M. Williams use kangaroo leather on a particular boot range, and Akubra by the fur or the pelts, off the rabbits, for making their hats. So, we do work with a lot of other well known Australian companies. We do a lot of shoe companies with the leather, especially athletic leather, so we depend on them actually, so we work with a lot of them.
Tony McManus
Great story.
Pat’s in Ocean Grove. Go ahead, Pat. Say hello to Ray Borda. Hello, Pat.
Caller - Pat
How are you? I was just slightly thinking about it, I thought we, me and my mate, Dom, we're in Mildura, being boys, and we had a permit from the government. It’s to the station owners up near Broken Hill, used to get in touch with us to cull 2000 roos and we go up there with their old ute and we kill, and we half-cut them, and then we sell the meat to the chillers in Wentworth. They used to buy all the meat from us and I think we should get 2 and 6 for a pair of rabbits and 7 and 6 for a scalp for a fox. We had a good little business going there for a few years. It was really good.
Tony McManus
Those numbers have probably changed somewhat these days, Ray, or have they?
Ray Borda
It's changed enormously and so are the vehicles that are being used. The vehicles they use now, 4-wheel drives with, they're like a little mobile abattoir, they have sterilisers on them, they have stainless steel racks, but I do recall those days. Those early days when people did only use the Bucks, but that was before human consumption came in, and all the regulations changed enormously. But there's a lot of farmers out there that once they get their licence to harvest kangaroos or rabbits, they've actually put their kids through college. Just remember, the Outback, where employment's hard to get and life can be pretty tough, it's actually supplied income to a lot of families over the years.
Tony McManus
Ray, are you excited about the future? You excited about the role that certainly family business, slash production, local production for anything that we do endeavour in Australia?
Ray Borda
Yeah, Family Business Association is a fantastic organisation and it just helps you network with other like people that have got family businesses, the pitfalls, the advantages. It's great to be networking with those people and there's so many fantastic companies that have been family businesses. It's a great association to be a part of because you don't know whether if you're doing everything right or everything wrong and when you hear stories from other great family businesses like Haigh's and few others, Thomas Foods. They're the ones that I know mostly.
Tony McManus
Coopers Brewery, in your part of the world. Haymes Paint here in Ballarat.
Ray Borda
Tim and Glenn Cooper, all of those. It really does help you.
Tony McManus
I think we found Jimmy. Good morning, Jimmy. Ray’s listening to you. Jimmy, go.
Caller - Jimmy
I've got a couple of questions for Ray, is it? The bloke from the Macro Group. Are you an Australian-owned company? What percentage?
Ray Borda
110%.
Caller - Jimmy
So, you're all Australian-owned. Beautiful. I shop at Foodland or Drakes, IGA because I like my money staying here, and I like the profits staying here, simple as that. That's why I don't shop at Woolworths or Coles because their profits go elsewhere and the point being there, I've been trying to get roo into some of our local stores just to be obtainable. I love them. I used to go out shooting roos years ago.
Tony McManus
Good on you, Jimmy. Thank you very much. Those sort of things are very important to people, those synergies. Aren't they, Ray?
Ray Borda
They are, especially with the world where it is now and after COVID. We're 100% Australian-owned company and everything we source is 100% Australian. Who could think of anything more Australian than kangaroo?
Tony McManus
It's a very good point. When we come back, we'll talk about the next Gen. Very important. Ray Borda, Founder, Managing Director, Macro Group in Australia.
Ray, lots of feedback, which is great. I was wondering, says Rod, where do we buy the product in Melbourne? Great question, Rod, thank you. Ray.
Ray Borda
Just about every supermarket has a game meat section and it's called K-Roo, so you should be able to get it at every supermarket, and if not, you can buy it online, Australian Meats and they'll deliver it to your door.
Tony McManus
Australian Meats to the door and the other question comes in from Mary, who asked via text about selling rabbits. So same thing for the rabbit?
Ray Borda
Rabbits are more online than anything else, but once again, Australian Meats online will be able to deliver them to your door.
Tony McManus
My great friend and mentor, you would remember, David Haymes, the late David Haymes from Haymes Paint, based in Ballarat and Australia. David would often ask the question about knowing how important the next Gen is, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Gen in any business, any family business, obviously, how important and when does founder say it's time to go?
Ray Borda
When there's something old, I guess. I've always said my idea of retirement is being able to go into work when I want to go to work, not have to go to work. So, I'm grooming them all up now to get closer to that day and they all have their areas that they take care of, so they don't overlap each other because it's one of the keys and I'm getting very close.
Tony McManus
And the other thing that comes up, of course with family business regardless of size really, is the idea of succession planning. Very important to you?
Ray Borda
Oh yeah, for sure, and I really get a bit of a kick when I see my kids sort of growing and knowing more and I keep giving them a bit more responsibility, and they're handling it really well because they have the passion because it is a family business.
Tony McManus
Father came from Malta with 0. How do you think he would view where the family is in 2024?
Ray Borda
He'd be very proud. I mean I don't know if he knew exactly what I was doing, but he knew that I had the work ethic and that I just wanted to get ahead. My mum and dad were always very proud of all of the kids and I remember my mum always saying, ‘How's business, Ray?’ Like it was always a concern, and I'm probably saying the same thing with my kids now. When I see them, whichever department they're in, I'm just saying, ‘and what's happening? Is everything OK?’ So we all do the same thing.
Tony McManus
Around a dinner table?
Ray Borda
We try really hard to leave work at work, but we've been really good at failing at it. So, we do talk about it, but the good thing about it, it's enjoyable talk. We'll have a laugh at few different things, and we'll talk about what we're going to do next week. It's good. We've learned to make it a pleasurable discussion rather than a problem, fixing discussion.
Tony McManus
So the future, generally speaking, you say is looking good. It's looking great.
Ray Borda
All the kids had their own education as far as what chosen field they wanted to go in, and it was their choice to come back. They will not come back to get involved in the business, and it certainly worked well because they get a different view, and they know what everybody else had done, like my daughter, who's our Marketing manager, she worked for Murdoch Newspapers, and my son Clayton, he's in charge of exports and sales. Now, his education has absolutely nothing to do with what we're doing. He did sports administration, sports science and he works for the SFNL and the Crows, so that has nothing to do with what we're doing but I think smart people can really adapt.
Tony McManus
Yeah, and that's a very strong point to finish on really. That ability to be able to adapt in any pursuit really.
Ray Borda
Yeah, it is. It's like with my younger son James, he was a fighter in Thailand, with martial arts and UFC. He's come back to Australia now, and he's got this competitive nature, I suppose, that he got when he was fighting and it's good to see. My whole upbringing was, I always say, if I could change my business card, it'd be Ray Borda Survivor or Ray Borda Troubleshooter because that's the way I handle things but they give a different aspect to the business completely. Now the next generation, my granddaughters are 17, and they're wanting to do a bit of part-time work, and they're interested in the business so yeah, it's continuing on.
Tony McManus
It's great, and Ray, what a joy to talk to you this morning. I thank you very much for your time. Continued success.
Ray Borda
And thank you for having me.
Tony McManus
Good on you, Ray. Ray Borda, Founder, Managing Director, Macro Group Australia, all for Family Business Association.
