Listen to the segment from 28 August 2024, featuring Brent Hutchinson from Don Kyatt Group.
Listen to our segment with Catherine Sayer, FBA CEO here: https://familybusinessassociation.org/article/hear-from-catherine-sayer-on-3aw-australia-overnight-with-tony-mcmanus
Listen to our segment with Michael Stillwell from Stillwell Group and special guest, David Mann here: https://familybusinessassociation.org/article/hear-from-michael-stillwell-from-stillwell-group--and-special-guest-david-mann-on-3aw-australia-overnight-with-tony-mcmanus
Listen to our segment with Emily Hammon from Scenic World here: https://familybusinessassociation.org/article/hear-from-emily-hammon-from-scenic-world-on-3aw-australia-overnight-with-tony-mcmanus
Listen to our segment with Ray Borda from Macro Group Australia here: https://familybusinessassociation.org/article/hear-from-ray-borda-from-macro-group-australia-on-3aw-australia-overnight-with-tony-mcmanus
Listen to our segment with Grant Menzies from Adina Watches here: https://familybusinessassociation.org/article/hear-from-grant-menzies-from-adina-watches-on-3aw-australia-overnight-with-tony-mcmanus
View the transcript here:
Tony McManus
Every now and then, as part of Australia Overnight, we talk about some of the amazing family businesses that exist in Australia.
When you find out more about what Australian family business does and the extraordinary businesses that go back sometimes well over 100 years, we should be placing, in my humble opinion, more and more emphasis on the great work that they do and the history of those businesses.
Here's one you've probably never heard of, and we'll find out why in just a moment, the Don Kyatt Group, but the brand, if you like, is, if you've ever been a 4 Wheeler, 4WD rather, you probably know this one, a Terrain Tamer. Terrain Tamer is the brand. Brent Hutchinson is the GM of the Don Kyatt Group.
Brent, good morning.
Brent Hutchinson
Good morning, Tony. How you doing?
Tony McManus
Well, I'm sensationally well and thank you for staying up nice and late and having a yak to us. I make the point with great respect. It's probably not a brand, Brent, that many people would be instantly recognising.
Brent Hutchinson
No, you're right. We certainly supply the mechanics of the world and so, it's not a retail brand, but it's up in lights so to speak. But yeah, certainly the mechanics of Melbourne and wider Australian, and internationally, would know the brands that are working on for 4WD.
Tony McManus
We'll get to that very shortly about the idea of how internationally it is now, but Terrain Tamer, I hope I get this right, is the leader, if you like, in the 4WD original replacement parts. Now this is a history from Moorabbin that goes back late 60s?
Brent Hutchinson
That's right, yeah, 1969. So back then, it was Bedford 4WD. I don't know whether you can remember or you ever drove a Bedford Tony?
Tony McManus
Certainly know the great brand and many of our listeners would be very familiar with Bedford.
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, so my father, Frank Hutchinson, started the business with a gentleman called Don Kyatt, and that's where they got the name, and they called it Don Kyatt because Don knew every Bedford owner in Melbourne by name and knew their make and model. So, it had that personal attachment to the customers as they came in, and we tried to have that today. Like you said, 1969 is when it started, so 55 years ago, and we try to have that personal touch even today, no matter where we go to.
Tony McManus
Brent, just remind us, Bedford was a brand that - they were being built here in Australia?
Brent Hutchinson
Well, no, a British company, a wonderful vehicle, that haven't been made for 35 years and we still get people calling up today. We looking for an old Bedford part to take their Bedford 4WD or their Bedford truck or Bedford bus to market often on a farm in the middle of WA or something like that.
But they're very robust vehicle, a lot in the British Army, and gradually technology overtook that company and I think they stopped making vehicles 30 years ago. For us as a company, the Land Cruiser and Toyota Hilux certainly came on the scene as the most dominant 4WD and then followed by the Nissan Patrol and Navara and the Ford Ranger, we'll say today, but certainly Toyota Land Cruiser and Toyota Hiluxes. And that's where you have a real niche.
In society, the people that drive those vehicles certainly know the brand that they use, and we are the parts people. So, we make the parts stronger, so that might be a stronger pipe or a stronger braking system, the suspension or stronger wheel bearing and that's where the mechanics find us.
Tony McManus
So, tell us about how you, if you like, how do you find these parts? Or are they being built? Are they being recreated for various customers around the world?
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, and that's a good question. We don't physically make anything. So, Head Offices in Melbourne, in Tottenham, but what we do is, often, we do the designs, but we use the manufacturers that Toyota or Ford or Nissan because quite often, they're not making the parts that are made for their vehicles. So, there will be a bearing company and an alternator company and a radiator company, a shock absorber company. So, we'll go to those manufacturers around the world with our designs and they'll make to our specifications. And they might lift the vehicle up, it might need a stronger braking system because in the high country, and it's got to travel down hills, a lot more weight on them. So, we make them overseas, mainly in Japan and Thailand, Germany, a little bit in Australia, and then, we bring it into Head Office and that's where it goes out to our branches from there.
Tony McManus
Getting some really great texts while you're speaking. Trevor, for example, says they're owned by the Roost Group, later, Leyland Morris' Bedford GMH, building the trucks here under licence in the 50s and 60s.
Thanks for that, Trev, so, great, great memories of those brands. Bedford, as you say, people would be very familiar.
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, back in the day, they were very, very strong and a very robust vehicle, and like I said, even the fact we can call on them today shows how strong they are. But certainly, the 4WD environment really swept through in, say, the 70s, 80s, and today, every 3rd vehicle is the 4WD, so they're quite strong. Australia's number 1 and 2 selling cars are 4WD, so it's interesting to see that wave and that's where we really went and specialised for the last 50 years into making those components stronger.
Tony McManus
Brent, tell us about Dad, still involved?
Brent Hutchinson
He is, yes. So, he's still our Managing Director. It's an interesting story itself. The fact that he started the company was amazing on surface, they didn't have much money, obviously when they started, him and Don would have other jobs they would go to at night. I think Frank used to work at the local hotel, wake up early in the morning, and visit the mechanics of Melbourne to take orders and hear their challenges they're having. Don would head straight into the shop to make sure it's opened up, and then they'll deliver.
But yeah, customer service was a crucial part of what he offered back then. It was the only way they survived. Without any stock, they'll go and find the stock around Melbourne and deliver it to the customers, and then gradually, we would develop our own range of Terrain Tamer parts.
But yeah, he's still 5 or 6 days a week, I had dinner with him last night and still discussing new ideas on what we can do. So yeah, he's certainly an integral part of the company still.
Tony McManus
Brent, years ago, my father, was very involved, for our entire lives really, with the Veteran Car Club. And if you were working on something like a very old Rolls-Royce or a very old De Dion-Bouton, for example, obviously those parts going back to the early 1900s were certainly no longer available. My recollection as a child that Dad and a couple of mates would recreate those parts or make those on a lathe back then.
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, we've got a few of those in our building in Tottenham. They're not used as much these days. Occasionally, our mechanics will use the lathe, but it's a challenge. A lot of the parts or the vehicles that we service parts for can go back, like the vehicle I drive, is a 40 series that’s 50 years old and we still have parts for those vehicles today. It's an interesting dynamic at the moment.
Tony McManus
Just let me jump in, so you're talking about a Toyota then, the 40 series Toyota?
Brent Hutchinson
That's right. Yeah, the Land Cruiser. The 40 series is one of the very early ones but it's interesting actually, the whole discussion about EVs, and where we're going with that type of technology because to keep an older vehicle going has a very low carbon footprint compared to creating a whole new vehicle from scratch. So, for us to have a lot of those old 40 series and 60 series and keep them available means we don't need to go and recreate another vehicle for some of the drives.
Tony McManus
Brent, what about, presumably, car clubs? So, if somebody was a member of, I don't know, just the Jaguar Car Club. So, obviously you can't, no longer go to Kellogg Faulkner here in Melbourne or one of the Jaguar dealers to buy a piece, for example, a Mark X Jaguar. I wouldn't have thought.
Brent Hutchinson
No, it's a big, big challenge. So, there's a lot of 4WD clubs in Australia, so the Toyota Land Cruiser Club is probably one of the strongest in our industry, and we hosted them down at our Head Office just a couple of months ago. So, we're very fortunate, we have quite a large block of land in Tottenham, we've got our own test tracks, so they are all lined up and taking their own vehicle on our own test track. But yeah, certainly those Car Club enthusiasts just love it. That's where you really get to that retail side as opposed to the mechanics of Melbourne who are there just fixing the vehicles and making them stronger.
Tony McManus
Brent, these days, you're the GM of the Group, the Don Kyatt Group.
Do you remember, as a kid, what that felt like? How did you become involved to this level?
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, it's a good question. As a kid, I was always around the company. Mum and Dad both worked, so my sister and I would go into work with Dad and the delivery driver would drop us out to our grandparents’ house on the other side of town. And then Saturdays was often in there either helping or driving remote control car around. But gradually over the years, probably more when I was early 20s, I got more involved full time and I had the fortunate job, I was the Sales Rep between Adelaide and Darwin. So, I had to drive that long stretch of Australia that was very beautiful once or twice a year, and it was just a beautiful way to go out and meet our customers.
Tony McManus
And how important are those customers today? And are they people who just love the idea of being able to have access to these very special parts because of their love of 4WD, particularly the older versions?
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, in Melbourne or in the cities, the 4WD enthusiast is very much someone who takes their vehicle out on the weekends and loves to talk about it. The further out you get from the city, it's more of a necessity. So certainly, as I described to customers in Alice Springs and Broken Hill and Darwin and Kalgoorlie, it's a necessity. Cattle station owners, miners, just people living on roads with no bitumen, they just need a 4WD. So, it's this necessity to keep it strong, and a lot of those customers, I was recently in Mount Isa, and they would drive 2 days to get into Mount Isa to get the vehicle fixed or repaired or strengthened and so, it's so crucial for them because that's the way of life.
Tony McManus
What was the idea of going and when did it go international? With, I think, you're about to open a business in the United States. I mean this then makes it your 9th overseas branch if you like, which is incredible.
Brent Hutchinson
It is, yeah. It's a wonderful Australian story. It's 1984, we opened in New Zealand, and for anyone who knows any vehicle in New Zealand, it's been a dumping ground of vehicles from all around the world. It's the most complex country so it was probably a good way to test ourselves in New Zealand, and then gradually over the years, we've opened up in Fiji, we have two branches. We opened up in France, so in Europe about 16 years ago; in Papua New Guinea, we have two branches, which is an interesting place in itself. We're also in Cape Town, in Africa, and Chile in South America. And as you said, on the 1st of October, we open up in the United States. So, it's interesting. Every region has its own culture and laws and taxes, so gradually, we get used to them, and begin and learn more about those customers’ needs.
Tony McManus
Stay right where you are, we'll come back in just a moment.
Brett Hutchinson is the General Manager of the Don Kyatt Group. The business name, Terrain Tamer.
If you've just joined us, Australia Overnight, we're talking to Brett Hutchinson, who's the GM of Don Kyatt Group. The brand you may or may not be familiar with is Terrain Tamer. I mean, it was the vision of Dad and, of course, Don Kyatt. They were mates in those days, pretty much a 2 men show. How many people working in the business now, Brent?
Brent Hutchinson
We're just touching 200, Tony, and we're very proud. We've got 27 of those that have been with us for over 25 years. So, it's certainly a lot of long standing staff there with us.
Tony McManus
And what about to bring new people through that understand, presumably, the technology, what needs to be done, and the love, I guess, in many, many ways of what they're doing and their customer base?
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, it's interesting. We have new people, and as we discussed before, a lot of people in other countries are working for us for the first time.
There's a real passion there in the 4WD industry, so that's always wonderful, but sometimes, we also get people that are not familiar with the industry initially and it can become a little bit addictive. We've got a lot of staff who weren't 4WD enthusiasts that suddenly caught the bug and bought a Hilux or a Land Cruiser and suddenly, they're away and they're really enjoying the experience.
Tony McManus
Tell us the great story, I think you shared with me a couple of weeks ago, we're talking on the phone about recruiting, when you're trying to recruit people in those overseas markets.
Brent Hutchinson
Well, it can be a challenge, as I said, Papa New Guinea or France or Chile, and of course, they've got to be able to speak English. That's one requirement we have, so we at Head Office can talk to them at different stages, but yeah, they're different worlds but it's incredible how familiar they can be. So, I've got a very lucky job where I get to travel to visit each one of the branches and a lot of our customers in different countries, and they have that same passion and interest to learn, and it's amazing. You can have a different culture, you would think from a different country, but certainly the same culture within the business existing in Fiji and France and Chile and just like it is in Melbourne.
Tony McManus
Just tell us about the, like any great family business, you're always looking about the next generation coming through. Share with this audience about the next gen in this business, the Don Kyatt Group, young people coming through, family members presumably.
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, it's always interesting. So, my father is in his late 70s. I'm 45, myself. I've got 2 nephews and a niece who work in the company, and they've really only just started working in the last couple of years. My niece has just gone off to work in the Marketing Department of Myer actually, and the nephews are in the warehouse. And it's an interesting dynamic in family businesses. Often, you'd like to see them really explore outside the family business and then, possibly, in the future, bring things back in. But they're all on their different journey, so you try not to push them too far but just enjoy what they're doing and have that work always available.
Tony McManus
I get the sense that most of the things, tell me if I'm wrong about this and no doubt you will, a lot of the vehicles and the parts are for, these days in which you supply, for recreational use or still used as work horses?
Brent Hutchinson
Well, you would think recreationally used because that's what you can see but certainly there's a whole mining community and environment industry. So, that's where the volumes of hundreds of vehicles are out there and even things like emergency services, ambulances and police and outback Australia, all have to drive 4WD to get along, and then you've got the farming industry, cattle stations. So yeah, the retail customers, what you can see, and particularly drive around the cities, but certainly there's larger industries out there that rely on 4WD every day.
Tony McManus
What do you say to people, Brent, that might be looking for a part from a car that's 20 or 25 years old for an old cruise, whatever the case may be, and the price that they feel that they're being charged for it unfairly?
Brent Hutchinson
Oh, it depends, you know, the parts can vary greatly. We only use original equipment manufacturers so there's all these specifications and requirements but certainly to keep that vehicle running and on the road is far cheaper than trying to buy a, it's very hard to get actually today, to try and buy a brand new Land Cruiser.
But yeah, you can go straight onto our website at terraintamer.com and look through. I think we have over 60,000 lines, so you can pick out your vehicle and it might be a radiator for an old 60 series, and you can find that online. So, it's very easy, and then our delivery vehicles, I think we have about 40 or 50 delivery vehicles travelling around Australia, they drop it off if you're in the metro area. So, it's very accessible. Today, we've all got a computer in our pockets, so it's much easier. When Don and Frank first started the business, it was much harder to access parts at all. So today, we just try and make it as simple as possible.
Tony McManus
What would your relationship these days with an organisation like Toyota, for example, or Nissan or the big manufacturers of all wheel drives? Presumably that's healthy and that works and complements what they are doing.
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, it's an interesting attitude with the car makers like that. I saw a video just the other day that in America, they released a brand new vehicle. They actually let, we're called the aftermarket, so after the vehicle is sold, let them inspect it so we can make all these wonderful parts for it. Certainly, the dealerships in Australia, they keep the parts, I believe, it's for 10 years after they release the vehicle. So, anything older than that, they actually all have an account with us, and we'll order parts for vehicles after that date, and they're very good customers of ours. So yeah, it's an interesting dynamic, even things like GVM upgrades, where you can upgrade how much weight a vehicle can carry, we often supply them for the Toyota dealerships around Australia as well.
Tony McManus
Do you keep an eye on what's happening in China, Brent? And I mean, they're just doing extraordinary things, and particularly with their manufacturing sector of newer vehicles. What does that mean? Can you see what that might look like in the next 5, 10, 15, 25 years out of China?
Brent Hutchinson
Wow, it's a hard one to answer. It's hard for us to know what's going to happen in 12 months in China, and I think there's a lot of influences there where the American and European markets are using tariffs to block those vehicles going in there. So, it's a bit of an unnatural state. I think there's also a lot of subsidies in China to make the vehicles, so they're almost, artificially, a little bit cheaper.
We're seeing them in the Australian market. It doesn't affect us so much. Certainly, the Japanese made vehicles like Toyota and Nissan are beautifully made vehicles and so, they have this longevity to them and so, they can last like my vehicle for 50 years. So, that doesn't have a great deal of impact on us as a business today but certainly, when you travel around the world, a lot of people need to access the land and that's where they need a 4WD. Most commonly, they go for a Toyota or a Ford range or a Nissan type of 4WD, and then that's where they find us. So, we're a long way away from that Chinese EV vehicle market. Metro market you would say.
Tony McManus
I bet your dad, all those years ago, along with Don, they could not have envisaged, presumably, how a prolific SUV would be in Australia at that time. I mean, everybody was still driving a Holden station wagon.
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, it's incredible, isn't it? Our Head Engineer is a gentleman called Alan Grey, who actually turned 90 only a few weeks ago and he had a business.
Tony McManus
Wow, still involved?
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, still very active. He sits on the desk next to me. He's in 4 days a week and an amazing, his mind is incredible in regards to teaching the next generation and the generation under that as well about what to look for and how we design parts. But he would tell me that he was one of only 3 mechanics in Melbourne who would ever touch a 4WD. It was a niche. General mechanics wouldn't go near them because they're a bit more complicated than your Holden or your Ford. But yeah, it's certainly mainstream today, and very common for all of us.
Tony McManus
Are you excited about the future?
Brent Hutchinson
Oh, most certainly. Yeah, I mean, the American market opens up some amazing opportunities for us. We have another brand called Flash Lube, which is in 80% of the service stations around Australia, and we're taking that with us to America. But there's also some exciting things that happen there, so they are not even in English. You know, in French speaking countries, and Spanish speaking countries, and we've got to accommodate all that, and cataloguing, and instructions, and printing and everything. So yeah, we've got plenty of things to happen and plenty of things to work on, but it's very exciting for all of us.
Tony McManus
The future is looking bright. There's still a lot of work to do.
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, that's right but we look forward to it. We're one of those companies that, 55 years, we've grown a little bit every year, so whatever we are able to turn our attention to, we're able to make it grow in some way, and it's just our customers. And as long as that core doesn't change, I think it's a bright future for us.
Tony McManus
As the leader now, do you have to sort of look how quickly we expand because there's history around expanding too quickly, which can go pear shaped?
Brent Hutchinson
Yeah, it's an interesting one. They certainly, companies that do that, I was reading a book about Swiss multivitamins going into America, and that didn't work out there, but they then went into China, and that was very positive for them. So yeah, you try to get lessons from all of these companies that you can learn from and then forge your own path. But we're pretty confident, we know the American market, actually, is the 3rd biggest country to visit our website month in, month out, and even though we don't have a presence there. So, we're really confident in that, and also, the countries that we've already set up in, we know the demand keeps getting stronger as they're more aware of us. Like you said, a lot of your listeners wouldn't even know the brand Terrain Tamer. When they find us, they tend to use us more and more.
Tony McManus
Which is why we talk to people like you because I just think it’s fantastic, in a family-owned business and started right here in Moorabbin, in Victoria, is amazing, the Don Kyatt Group of companies. Brent, wish you well with the future, and hopefully, we'll talk again at some point.
Brent Hutchinson
Excellent, alright. Thanks very much for that Tony, I appreciate your time.
Tony McManus
The Don Kyatt Group and Brent talking about another great Australian family business. Australia Overnight.
